#113 - Brian Costello - Building A New World Through Story & Spirit

Brian Costello challenges the way we’ve been conditioned to think about progress by arguing that the systems we rely on for change may be the very things holding us back. Years of chasing performance, growth, and measurable success begin to crack, exposing how much of what we chase is inherited rather than chosen. Instead of trying to fix it within the same framework, Brian turns to fiction writing and the art of world-building as a way to reimagine what life could look like. He uses story not just to explain new ideas, but to make them real enough to feel, question, and ultimately pursue. 

Timestamps: 
00:00 New Earth Explorer
08:09 Tapping Into The Spiritual, But Staying Grounded In The Physical
23:34 Focusing On Primordial
30:13 Why Fiction Can Be Better Than Non-Fiction Writing 
34:32 The Importance Of Storytelling
43:32 Using Fiction To Hide Behind New Ideas
46:57 The Plot Of Brian's Book, 'The Primordial Code'
52:54 Living In Costa Rica
59:28 The Mission To Bring A Fictional World To Real Life
1:08:26 The Impact That Brian's Brother Danny Has Had On Him
1:15:45 Connect With Brian Costello 

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Transcript

Brian Costello challenges the way we’ve been conditioned to think about progress by arguing that the systems we rely on for change may be the very things holding us back. Years of chasing performance, growth, and measurable success begin to crack, exposing how much of what we chase is inherited rather than chosen. Instead of trying to fix it within the same framework, Brian turns to fiction writing and the art of world-building as a way to reimagine what life could look like. He uses story not just to explain new ideas, but to make them real enough to feel, question, and ultimately pursue. 

speaker-0 (00:03.566)

What is a new earth explorer?

speaker-1 (00:07.726)

Coming right in, I love it. So New Earth Explorer, the way I look at it, the way I kind of came to that term as something that felt accurate in describing my work right now, which has been tricky by the way, describing my work right now. And I a lot of people I'm sure you interview and in this world right now are feeling the same way of like, we're all trying to create and manifest and bring in something new and different and better.

And it's not always easy to put that a label on that. So new earth explorer to me was a feeling, a word, a term that kind of came because I was thinking about the idea of exploration, kind of the original explorers that were more geographical explorers, right? They were chartering new lands and trying to discover these places that

I I imagine they didn't know, didn't have a lot of certainty about exactly where they were headed and what they were going to find when they got there. And so that, that part, that's one part, right? That feels very relevant to where we are now. We're, going somewhere new. We're headed towards something new and different. And I believe going to be very, you know, much, much better. Who knows what we'll have to go, you know.

what might come first, but I think ultimately we're going somewhere better. But we don't know exactly what it's going to look like and things, but we're just kind of in that place of trust and faith that where we're headed is better than where we're going now. And I also, the term also feels relevant because I imagine these explorers having to

you they were rarely going on their own, right? I'm thinking of, you know, some of the most well-known ones and having ships full of other explorers, I guess, technically as well, going with them. So they probably had to really kind of convince these people to go with them, you know? But they're convincing them again without any certainty. They can't guarantee. It's not like, I know exactly where we're going and this is how long it's going to take and this is exactly what's going to be there when we get there and we're each going to have this, that and the other thing guaranteed.

speaker-1 (02:35.988)

And in our world, we live in a world right now, I think, where people really love to have that certainty. You know, especially like in the online world, if we sell things, if we have a product or a program or something, like people want to know, like, I want to guarantee that this is going to help me. I want to guarantee that this is going to work. I can't really take a risk. I can't take a chance. Like we're in this like very well, such a high calculated mindset with these sort of things. And.

I, so I use that term explore to try to like show, like bring us out of that a little bit and kind of go back to this idea of I can't guarantee what's going to happen. I can't guarantee exactly what's going to look like, where we're going to go, but I feel really good about it. And I'm putting all my faith and all my trust into it. And I'm encouraging, I'm not guaranteeing, but I'm encouraging you to join me on this journey and this mission to discover the new earth.

the next version of the earth and the society. But instead, like I was saying, instead of charting new lands, we're not going, we're probably not going anywhere new that's been undiscovered as far as geographically, but we're chartering and exploring new ideas, new agreements, new codes, new ways of being, new principles. Maybe not new as in ever.

and human, you know, civilization and society and human history. In fact, in a lot of ways, it's probably going back to the more, to the more ancient sort of ways. but new to anyone that's walking this earth now that we've never really lived in and experienced and having to sort of erase and decode a lot of things that are just normal to in our mind, just the way things have always been and go explore and try.

these new things, these new ideas, and knowing that we'll probably get them wrong a lot along the way.

speaker-0 (04:41.59)

I like that you define new as being uncertain and just having that transparency of like, I don't know what's going to come from this. guess to make it a little bit more concrete, what do you see as being the current world? Like you got into it a little there is this need for certainty and always understanding, but what do you see the current world looking like?

speaker-1 (05:06.232)

So I think, you know, as far as keeping in the realm of like where we are and like the sort of shifting that's happening, there's massive paradigm shifts happening right now. And they might not all be noticeable and tangible yet, but like on the foundational grassroots level, like there's a lot of things happening. A lot of people working together, coming together and collaborating. And then I'm also in the belief that there's things happening in the, you know.

the cosmically, guess would be the word as well. And most people that are sort of care about any of this seem to agree on that. But yeah, I think one of the biggest things that we are needing to abandon is this idea that these sort of changes come from the top down hierarchies that are currently exist and we're kind of waiting around.

for them to tell us what's going to happen next and how it's going to all look and how it's going to go. I think we're mostly through just the way things have always been, through schooling, through just like just the societal norms is just like, that's how it happens. know, is what change, you vote, you know, the best that we can do is vote and hope and wait for them to do the things that ignite the change. So that alone is just like a,

an unlearning sort of to steal from Cal. I was just on Cal, Callahan show yesterday. like, it's like an unlearn a massive unlearning that needs to happen to just realize that if we wait around for them, first of all, even if let's just imagine there for the sake that they're all like, we could vote someone in that's like really has our best interests in mind. And they're like really these heart centered leadership. Well, like just, even if that's the case, it just takes forever. It's going to, it would take forever. Now obviously factoring in

that that's obviously not the case. If we're really waiting around, I mean, if they were letting them guide us and take us, it's not gonna look anything like this new earth vision that I held at least. I think it's gonna look a lot more like a technocratic surveillance state, know? Which is really the opposite of where we want to go. It might be where we're headed if we do nothing, but it is the opposite of where.

speaker-1 (07:27.766)

me and a lot of people that I work with and I'm sure a lot of people listen to the show and in this area and all those things know that we should be going where it's possible.

speaker-0 (07:37.486)

When I reflect on this understanding of new earth or what that means to me, and you got into it a little there with, you know, this cosmic environment where it's, you know, not just within the material world. And I see that that is where we are going and need to go is because I think within our current world, we have a strictly physical mechanistic view.

of ourselves and of the self. And that's what's led to a lot of problems where we don't appreciate that there is something larger to ourselves that we can connect to. I see the new earth is okay. need to combine the physical with the spiritual. I, I'm careful to say that though, because you still need to be grounded in your body. And I don't want to.

demonize that, especially when it comes to physical fitness. know, know for you as well as for me, physical fitness played a large role. I think, especially for young men, it's really important to build the physical body. getting into that part of your journey when you were younger, how did fitness play a purpose for you, but then ultimately kind of shift you out of alignment?

speaker-1 (09:01.262)

Yeah, great. Really good question. so yeah, fitness was kind of everything for me for a while, right out of, right out of college, I opened a CrossFit affiliate. Um, I had, this was early, this was, I opened, I technically like affiliated at the end of 2009, my doors opened in January of 2010. I had been doing CrossFit for about three years, like 06, 07 ish is when I started, which was early in CrossFit movement.

And I was like, you know, drinking the Kool-Aid by the gallon, right? I could not have been more into this. And I loved it. I don't do crossfit anymore, but this was a period of my life. It brought me back on track. I had been partying a lot in school. I stopped wrestling. I wrestled my first two years of college. I wrestled my whole life in the first two years of college. And it was just like burnt out and over it. But then I was kind of like lost for a bit, know, just partying a lot and like not getting good grades. You know, I was just kind of off track and crossfit.

you know, brought me back in and started focusing on myself again, bettering myself and reading so much, like literally buying biomechanics textbooks. I couldn't pay attention in biomechanics, I was a phys ed major, I couldn't pay attention in class, but like once I started associating it to what I was actually doing in the gym, now I'm buying textbooks on my own and reading them, you know, it's kind of wild. but I, I got so

obsessed with it really. I started, I opened my doors to my gym and it just was my world from a coaching standpoint, from my own performance standpoint, from a business entrepreneurship standpoint. It obsession, obsession, obsession. Like I wanted to wear all the hats and do all the things and exceed in every aspect. And I kind of did for a while, like at least on paper. I did, like I, know, my business was growing rapidly.

Everything that I could measure, number of members and money coming in, staff and all these things was all going up, up. My own performance, how much I could lift, all these different lifts, how fast I could run, my times on my benchmarks going up or down or, know, whichever, improving. And, you know,

speaker-1 (11:19.854)

It was something where I just felt like I was on this upward trajectory that was never going to end. And I was going to just like, you know, I'd be doing this for rest of my life and keep expanding the gym and keep just improving my lifts and going, going, going. but I was in, I was just in hyper overdrive, like 24 seven, just go, go, go. only knew one gear and it was all out all the time. What was like, you know, how I was working out in the gym was basically just like how I was living my life, you know? And I was just like.

fueling on like multiple cups of coffee a day and like 12, 14 hour days, you know, at the business and this and that. and I also, cause this will tie in specifically to your question too. I also started to, because it's just kind of common in the exercise science space, I started to get very obsessed with the science side of it, right? And in our modern world, in modern science,

The norm is like a reductionist to reduce everything down to us being these material beings and the things we, know, the foods we eat are just, these are proteins, carbs and fats, right? And all this stuff and it's just, we're machines and it's just a calculation. So everything was like data and calculation and times. And I started like wandering down that path a little bit and

speaker-0 (12:34.319)

machines

speaker-1 (12:46.732)

social media was first coming around, started following guys. And it was always just like, how do I formulate, it was all about formula. How do I hack the formula to success? And then, so I started like even just getting more hyper-focused on these analytical details and linear thinking and inputs, outputs and da, da, da. And because I was checking, because I was like, you my, my life scoreboard with all my lifts and my achievements, cause I also was competing.

and CrossFit and doing pretty well. I competing in, I was a quick sidebar, a lifeguard as well through my high school and college years. And I competed in, there's like big competitions and I was a beach sprinter and I competed and I did really well. won multiple national championships. I was on the United States team. was trapped, yada yada. So like all signs are pointing out, this is working. I'm doing great. Everything's going well. And I just kept like reducing it down to,

tiny variables that I could change, but I was missing the glaring signs for my body.

speaker-0 (13:52.248)

Did it always feel like you were missing that?

speaker-1 (13:54.09)

No, no, I just

speaker-0 (13:56.567)

I would assume that there was a part of your life, especially early on, where like it did feel aligned. It did.

speaker-1 (14:01.812)

Yeah, I was like, you know, especially I'm in my low to mid twenties. and again, like everything's going well. Anyone around me is like looking at me like, wow, this guy's really successful and he's doing all these things. He's winning. I mean, literally standing on top of podiums, right? Like it feels good. My body, you know, I'm still improving. I'm young. I'm getting away with a lot that I wouldn't, you could probably guess where I'm going was short-lived, but yeah, it felt great.

but I was, I like to believe that the body whispers and it talks and it screams and the whispers, was way too go, go, go overdrive mode to ever even know how to tune into the whispers. Talking same thing, like it doesn't matter even the screams, you know, but anything that I even notice had to be a scream for me to even notice it. But then I was old, I was in the mentality of just push through, you know, I was also a wrestler my whole life, just like.

across, you this is, I'm in this world still of like, you're supposed to feel like this. Everything's supposed to hurt. That's like a sign that you're doing well. That's your feedback, you know? And then all the burnout that was coming with the business, you know, and then I was trying to just build systems and stuff, thinking I was like, knowing I was kind of burning out, but thinking I'm, you know, I'm putting everything in place. I'll work my ass off now and it'll be on cruise control. It's not, you know, sounds good in theory. It's just not really how it worked out for me. And I think rarely does for entrepreneurs.

speaker-0 (15:01.838)

You're supposed to feel like.

speaker-1 (15:28.782)

when you're riding that line so close. But yeah, we saw everything was this like material reductionist science minded kind of thing until the wheels just started falling off. a lot of things in my, just the wheels started falling off physically first, you know, one injuries that I just, the screams just got so loud that like I had, was forcing me to slow down. I was so burning, you know, now I'm talking

six, seven years of this business, things I'm really starting to burn out and it's showing through the business, my business relationships, which happened to be a lot of close friends, I'm starting to have falling outs, which is weighing on me emotionally. My marriage essentially was crumbling around me. And I went through a really low period of time where I couldn't compete. I couldn't train.

You know, summarizing a lot of ups and downs throughout the year to make it more digestible. But like I hit this point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like I'm falling apart here. And I made some decisions. I up selling off the business to one of my coaches. I kind of just like gave it to him more or less. I was just like, I hit this wall and I was just like, got it. You I got to move on to some different things.

I had to focus on myself, my health, my marriage, these things that needed my attention that I hadn't been giving. And through that process, when I started to shift gears, I really didn't know exactly what was coming next. But I started to learn, I started to, nature kind of brought me back into, so I did a very long fast. That was like a big shift for me. My wife and I did it together to kind of reset what felt like we were kind of at zero.

emotionally, romantically, financially, like we were just hitting the bottom and we fasted and came into our lives. And I don't think it's probably best to go too far into that. Like, I mean, I'm happy to answer questions if you want, but I don't want to sidetrack us too much, but we went into this long fast and it shifted me back. It brought me back into the spiritual realm. It made me remember, cause like in CrossFit, everything was like, you want to do better, it's more and more and more.

speaker-1 (17:47.148)

run more, squat more, needed to do two workouts a day, then I needed to do three workouts a day, then I needed to eat this many calories and have this. And the fasting was like the opposite. I did nothing for 30 days. I didn't eat. I laid in, I would spend three, four hours laying in the hammock. I would take these long walks and just be in nothing, nothingness. And my body was improving more in those 30 days than I ever had. know, and like everything was, I was like, what?

speaker-0 (18:13.282)

Like everyone that I talked to about fasting, especially on the podcast, they explain it the exact same way that fasting is a spiritual experience and going to where you're talking about with that nothingness. live in a world that we're always looking for something to distract us, whether that's food, our phone. And fasting is literally about like, okay, I'm having some urges, I'm having some tendencies, but I'm just going to sit with this nothingness.

speaker-1 (18:39.118)

it and feel it and really like what is this thing? Why am I actually reaching for this food, this snack right now or my phone right now? When it's not there as an option, you pause and reflect and what's really at the root here? What's the discomfort that I'm numbing here? So I got to really evaluate myself in this way. Something I hadn't done. You know, this was again, this was through my 20s. I know you're a younger guy too. You obviously have a lot more awareness than most kids your age.

It's also a different time, like, you know, I didn't really, I didn't have that connection to myself. Even knowing what it meant to sit with like a thought and process it and get to the root of what I'm feeling and why and how I'm acting and the things I'm saying and where they're coming from. So then it like, that dial turned up at first kind of, kind of the extreme as well. Like I was still in kind of like extremist mindset a little bit, like even when I was starting to do breath work.

which

speaker-0 (19:39.086)

Most of the people I talk to live in the extremes of summer grace.

speaker-1 (19:42.062)

Yeah. And I was still in that. So even when I started to do breath work, was like, I gotta get, you know, I gotta hit a three minute breath hold. Now I gotta get a four minute breath hold. Now I gotta get a five minute breath And slowly I realized that like, I stopped timing it all together. And like, this is not the point of this. And like, same with the ice bath. Like I gotta get hit milestones. I'm like, this is, you know, I still had to learn those types of things. Just do the thing and feel it and just like check in with the body. Like what feels right. Yeah. I feel complete right now. The ice bath feels like I've been in here long enough to get the effect. I feel really good.

speaker-0 (20:01.544)

Let me just do the thing.

speaker-1 (20:12.046)

just get out, you know? I don't have to force myself through this pain state, you know? And same thing with my movement practice and my getting into my body. And, you I always thought like any kind of mobility and stretching had to hurt, you know, and I started to, I had to relearn all of this. But to bring it back into the idea that like I was learning how to get back, I was learning about the, how amazing the human body is and nature and how to, how I was now,

just connecting to myself and connecting to nature again and realizing that so much of that data-driven science evidence-based quote unquote stuff that I was experimenting with all those years was really, know, whether or not it like technically works in a lab or in science is not the point. It's more about how it affects us in the totality of the human experience. So I shifted hard into the spiritual realm.

And it's funny now I know like that in my twenties it was from a more energetic standpoint, Chinese medicine, it was the yang. I was in that yang, masculine, go, drive, compete, complete, do, do, do, do. And then nature forced me. I had to slow down. My body could not go on anymore. Unfortunately, I like to say Mother Nature's laws are simple, but her punishments are harsh. like,

If you don't follow the simple laws, know, next thing know, I'm hurting, I'm getting surgeries and whatnot. That's the point where I had to slow down. And then I started to shift into that yin state and learn how to be still and be quiet and listen and meditate. And I think that's kind of the shifting that the world is going through right now as well. It's kind of out of that yang, compete, do, go, we're all against each other. Just claw your way to the top killer, be killed and into this.

more state of coherence and collaboration and how do we recreate this and reimagine this together in this, you know, and build this new earth.

speaker-0 (22:13.794)

to bring more language into it and a different word. Why is primordial the word that resonates with you so much and why did you first get exposed to that?

speaker-1 (22:26.956)

Yeah. So the word primordial, it originally came into my awareness field during an ayahuasca ceremony, actually. and while I work with medicine, I also have a, basically a movement practice that I do that coincides with the medicine work really well, because it's really just bringing us back into nature's alignment and nature's movement code.

of spirals and the waves and the decompressed state of the natural being. So when I'm in ceremony, do lot of work on, do my, it's basically the same practice I do on a daily basis, which is like a groundwork, decompressive groundwork practice to re-code these patterns. But it's so much emotional and spiritual as well, because when we're in that, it's grounded, centered, balanced alignment, right? And that doesn't, it's not just.

something that happens in the mind or the body that can only come happen when it's both or all.

So I'm man in an ayahuasca ceremony that's actually an outdoor ceremony and it's a little bit of a looser container, very, you know, a teacher that holds medicine with great reverence and all those things, but it's outdoors. You have a little bit of space to move around. The first cup, have you ever worked with ayahuasca? Are you like familiar? Like you've heard of it?

speaker-0 (23:52.406)

I've heard of ayahuasca. mean, that's like, that's really not my realm at all.

speaker-1 (23:56.622)

Okay, that's fine. It's a really, really powerful medicine. So it's referred to as grandmother, the grandmother medicine sometimes, because it's sort of like the ultimate teacher and spirit. And it holds more of a divine feminine spirit in some ways.

speaker-0 (24:00.59)

because of Aaron Rodgers.

speaker-1 (24:19.31)

But anyway, my first cup is just typical. And the reason I ask is it's typical to serve, usually I have two cups. It's kind of traditional, I guess, in most cases. First cup, I'm like struggling. I'm like super nauseous. I can't get grounded. I can't get into my body. And there's some people around me that are struggling as well. I'm kind of just feeling like, I don't know, I can't get into it. I take my second cup, I start walking back to my spot and I'm like, you know what? I'm not going back to the spot. It's like not jiving over here. And I look up and there's like this

little clearing, like this grass clearing a little bit higher. on like a hilltop. I don't know if I said that yet. And I see this grass clearing the way the sun's hitting. It was like calling me. I'm like, I'm just gonna go over there, get in the ground, get into my body, get into my practice. And I end up doing exactly that. I'm shifting the energy of the entire ceremony and I'm getting really deep into my body. When this happens,

So.

speaker-1 (25:17.882)

what happens in my body in these states. so the practice that I'm talking about and what happens to me, it's not like you're learning, like you're kind of recoding your entire movement behaviors and positions and postures. But it's almost like you don't have to do anything. You're basically just like awakening and intelligence that's already inside of you. And it can feel

Like you're being almost possessed in some ways by like a bigger, more powerful version of yourself or even potentially an animal for me specifically. The Jaguar spirit is like so clear and center for me when I'm in these states. And it's almost like it just like takes over and like specifically in the low back and like this kind of crawling pattern that comes in and you're like, you can't even like stop almost. It's just like, I I could.

If it was a movie, would look like someone like, you know, transforming into like a, an animal. For anyone, depending on who's listening, they might be like, what is he talking about? know, if people have done ayahuasca before, they're like, yeah, I So I'm up there and I'm just like freaking, at least like two hours just by myself, really getting deep. I'm just like feeling this, it literally, it's an intelligence that's taking over and all I'm trying to do is get out of the way and let it fully engulf me.

And, and all of a sudden, like, I didn't even really, I don't really, didn't really know at the time what the word primordial meant. But all of a sudden I just hear this like kind of voice like echoing and it's like, it's primordial, it's primordial. It's like this primordial intelligence. And it just starts like, it's just like echoing in my mind for like the whole time I'm up there. And I didn't know what it meant. Like I couldn't give you at the time, at least like any kind of verbal definition, but I could feel.

without a shadow of a doubt what it meant. And then I find out later on that really what it means is like, so there, actually, I'll start by contrasting to the word primal. So a lot of times people sort of mix the words up or use them interchangeably. In my, from my perspective, the word primal kind of talks about like, you know, if we look at ourselves in this sort of evolutionary standpoint, it's like going back to like the beginning of human evolution.

speaker-1 (27:41.422)

when we're in a little bit more of primal state. And there's nothing wrong with this. I know a lot of people use it in their branding and stuff. I'm totally cool with that. have anything against the word, but to me, it signifies a little bit more of like an animalistic kind of going back in time. to where maybe we moved better and did some things better, but we were like lesser versions of ourselves, of humans. We're primordial. What it means is before the existence of time at all, it predates.

everything. It is like the original creation, the original code, the infinite code that is in us all. And to me, I associate that word with the greatest, highest, most supreme intelligence that there is with, you know, God's source creator. So that's why the word, the book is called Primordial. So that day I decided I had been thinking about this book. It was coming to my mind.

but I didn't have a title, I didn't have the characters yet exactly, you it was just like kind of in this phase. was far from committing to even doing it, yeah, but was just, it was in my mind. And that day I decided that the book would be called The Primordial Code.

speaker-0 (28:53.294)

Let's go there. Before you wrote the book, you had the intention of writing a non-fiction book actually. How do you think writing a fiction book actually serves your purpose more than if you had written a non-fiction book?

speaker-1 (29:01.912)

Mm-hmm.

speaker-1 (29:11.266)

Yeah, I'm so happy that I wrote a fiction book. And it's funny that, cause I don't even really read much fiction at all. And it's funny because people will talk to me and they'll like, it's kind of like, they'll like mention other books or other authors. like, I don't know any, I never even read Harry Potter. And I read, but I did read like lots and lots of non-fiction.

and how to self-help, even more deeper stuff too, like, you know, spiritual stuff. And obviously even all the science stuff I was talking about earlier. But I have read a few fiction books along the way that were similar to what I aim for of like, I learned a lot or maybe even more than some, some usual nonfiction because it was told through a story.

instead of just like, here's what you do, step one, step two, you know. Cause I had a lot of information in my mind that I did feel like I was going to share in a book eventually, but like, always just assumed I would write a non-fiction book because that's what I always read. in fact, I even had, I did have a title for a non-fiction book called, all starts within accessing instinct and intuition in the age of information. like, that's the thing. And it would have been

speaker-0 (30:22.286)

What was that?

speaker-0 (30:28.398)

I'd probably pass on that one. Yeah.

speaker-1 (30:32.814)

Probably really good, but how do you stand out? How do you make it different? But it's funny though, in the Primordial Code, one of the characters, I won't say who, because it's a pivotal time in the story, ends up in a bookstore and he buys that book while he's there and ends up reading the introduction to the book. So I wrote the introduction to the book that he... Yeah, a little history, exactly. It's almost like a little inside joke to myself.

speaker-0 (30:56.386)

Holy shrek

speaker-1 (31:03.702)

But yeah, so I read a few books over the years that really stuck with me a little bit more because they were fiction or story based at least, or like dialogue, a lot of dialogue. I also love podcasts, right? This dialogue is often how we learn and retain information because there's question and answer, right? There's back and forth. And that's how we learn. That's how things flow as opposed to just taking in all in. So.

I knew of the topics I wanted to cover and how deep they go and how they can seem so out there to a lot of people. I knew I needed characters that could come in and be skeptical and ask the questions that the reader would be asking. Say, I don't know, this sounds like, you know, whatever. So there can be the back and forth and I can, could take the conversations deeper and deeper. Um, and that's exactly what I did. And I also wanted fiction because

You know, we talked about this new earth idea and so many people that in my circles and I work with, I was just at the confluence event that I was talking about. It's such an event based around freedom and spirituality and individual sovereignty, collaboration. And we all are here trying to create this new world, but like we don't, we have a vague, you know, we all have this general idea of what we want it to look like.

But we don't really have like a specific kind of target that we're aiming for. It's not like there's another country or a place that we can point at and say, let's do it like them. Cause it doesn't really exist. So I wanted to create a setting that could be that. Not that it's perfect and has all the things, right? It's fictional setting, but like, I think it's really close. So I did the best to make it as close as I can to the target for us to aim for. There's enough dystopian settings out there of all the places, things that we don't want to have.

I was thinking let's create a land that we can, readers can finish the book, close the book and say, do we, where, what do I do? How do we do this? Let's get started. And from the feedback I've been getting, that's, I think I did hit it pretty close.

speaker-0 (33:12.11)

Yeah, I mean, just me reflecting on it, because I really want to parse out this whole relationship between fiction and nonfiction and world building. within our current world, I think we've completely lost touch with story and especially creative storytelling fiction. Because when you read a nonfiction book, it's just.

Like you were saying, sharing thoughts, sharing ideas, but you stay within this world and it's when it's with fiction, gets you more in touch with your feeling side. And if we're talking about the word primordial, it's like, it gets you back in touch with your primordial side, which I would say is your childlike self. I've been talking, I've got a good friend. He's been on the podcast a couple of times, Josh Chuba. He does a lot of, creative storytelling and writing and uses social media in that way.

We were talking about the same thing. Like the reason why adults love stories is cause that's what we grew up with. takes us back to our childlike self. And, know, I feel like we're, I feel like the times are gone where we, you know, we don't need somebody to just like, tell us, like explain stuff to us. Like, all right, like here it is. Like you were saying one, two, three, but let me actually explore it. Like, let me actually observe something and have this story.

work within me and so on so I can involve myself in it rather than just reading a nonfiction book where it's very just analytical. Because I think to a large degree, we're all trying to build our own world. Like when it comes to our work, our aspirations, our crafts, at the end of the day, what that is, is world.

speaker-1 (35:07.534)

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Very interesting thoughts. Couple of things you said there.

The world building idea for sure. We're all trying to, and what also comes to mind to me is imagination, right? It's bringing us back into an imaginative state because that's what we're doing when we're trying to create our own world. We need to imagine it first in our individual lives, right? When we're trying to, we're reading these books, self-help development books, we're then trying to imagine a new version of ourselves and a new version of our lives. And,

That's kind of what I'm doing here with the, on a more grander scale of a societal, right? It's something to bring us back into our imagination because that's where ideas and visions start. So it had everything that is in existence in this world had to be imagined by somebody first. And it's just planting the seeds of what can be like, you know, what can be possible if we can all imagine it, see the vision, hold the vision, stick to the vision. But also.

what you said about just, story and our just desire for story. mean, the story is as old as times, as old as humans.

speaker-0 (36:23.32)

think the reason why that is is because...

story needs time to unfold and we don't want that anymore. you know, the way that we've been programmed and wired now is okay. If I can't get it in 30 seconds, then, you know, I can't keep my attention and story, whether it's a book or even honestly movies. When it comes to movies, people are on their phone watching them. They're just.

speaker-1 (36:44.812)

Exactly. Right.

speaker-1 (36:56.782)

can't even hold his head to it

speaker-0 (36:58.634)

So it's like, that's the reason I think stories become in such high demand, but such low supplies because of our attention.

speaker-1 (37:06.99)

Without a doubt. Yeah, because we want, you know, we have information overload, right? But it's like we want it now, we want it fast, we want to apply, we want results fast, you know, and stories is going to be the opposite of that. it's coming back because we need it. It's a return. It's been as they said, human, all aspects of human civilization, even ones that didn't use writing, they all had story, they all had mythology, they all had ways of teaching lessons.

through story because I think we retain it so much better. If you ask people, I'm thinking of this example on the spot, I bet you, like say there's someone who's like a Star Wars fan and also has a fan of like whatever XYZ, like author, self-development author, whatever.

If you ask them, even though I really like this author book, if you ask them to really break down for you what they've learned and what they've applied or whatever, versus what they can remember about the Star Wars characters and their journey, so a hundred times better, they could just tell you everything about Luke Skywalker and this whole journey and all these things, right? Because we see ourselves in it and we feel it and it's something different. And this is in alignment with the feedback that I've been getting.

There's two characters in the story. There's a male and female that alternates chapters, point, a point of view, every chapter. And they're going through the same experience, same one week in Okabaya, which is the land. And you're seeing it through two different eyes, obviously, in two different sets of perspective. But the feedback I've been getting is people like, relate to these characters so much. It's so much, so similar to my own journey, to my own awakening, because the themes are universal.

Right. And it's the specifics are different. but the, the experiences like what we go through in our lives and all of our own individual journeys is so one individual, it's, it's different as can be. And there's these universal themes and patterns that show up in all of them. All right. So I was able to hit on all of those. And then it allows for the person to really retain what's relevant.

speaker-1 (39:25.984)

and what's significant and also just kind of just not discard, but just like not retain the rest. Like just treat the rest as entertainment. know, like there's parts of the book I'm sure that won't apply to people's, they might not say like, wow, this is something I can go do tomorrow. But it's still enjoyable and engaging cause you're watching them go through a transformation and you're hoping for them and rooting for them and wondering what's going to happen next. And there's foreshadowing and.

at first, when I first started writing, didn't, so have you ever heard of Celestine prophecy or read Celestine prophecy? It's a pretty well known book. It's probably 20 or 30 years old. It's kind of like, many people are like, it's like Celestine prophecy because it's like a spiritual discovery sort of story, a spiritual discovery through story. And it's about like, they finally these, insights, there's like 10 insights that they like uncover throughout the story.

And there are some similarities and I actually really liked the story. I liked the book a lot and no offense at all to the author. For some reason the name is escaping James Redfield at the moment. But, I mentioned a few fiction stories that did impact me. This was one of them. So I don't want to make this sound like there's anything bad, but the story itself was like, know, it's like, it's kind of like cliche, you know, they go through this thing, they find the stuff he falls in love with the girl.

So, but I also, but people love it it was great. And it's been like this monumental success for all these years because people get so much out of it still. So when I went into writing this, I kind of in my mind was like, the story doesn't need to be like that, you know, it's just, it's about the content, it's about the conversations, it's about the things they were discovering and uncovering. But then as I got writing, I was like,

has to be good too. Or at least like why can't it be good? Like can also, if I really want to make this book the best version of it, the story is going to be really good too. So I like held myself a little bit more accountable where I was going to maybe like, could maybe let myself off the hook a little bit like, this isn't really important. Like they're here for the content. I ended up kind of doubling down on it and saying, no, the story needs to be really good. needs to grab and hold.

speaker-1 (41:43.118)

And again, the feedback has checked out on that too, where people are like, you know, really wanting, they're flying through it because they're like, I want to know what's going to happen. Like the story is pulling me in. I'm like, okay, good. You know, that's the.

speaker-0 (41:55.234)

Yeah, because I mean, you know, you're doing the deeper message of disservice if the story isn't strong with that.

speaker-1 (42:01.966)

Exactly, because people finish and might be like, yeah, it was okay. Like got some things out of it, like, you know. People remember the story. People remember the story.

speaker-0 (42:10.254)

You, uh, you touched on it a little bit earlier. Um, you know, being skeptical, or, using Garrett as a skeptic to sort of introduce new and novel ideas and sort of test the boundaries when writing a fiction, did it give you a little bit more confidence in a way compared to if you were to write a nonfiction? Because I don't like to use the word hide, but I am going to use it. Like you could kind of.

hide behind the characters and hide behind the stories of sharing those types of ideas, whereas when, you know, if you're writing a non-fiction book, there's a direct correlation between, ideas and

speaker-1 (42:49.166)

Exactly. 100%. And it's fine to use the word hide because that's definitely what I did. what I didn't want to do at any point in time, and I still remind people of that, it's not, here's Brian Costello's, you know, how to change the world book, right? It's not that because I don't have all those answers. What I've put into that book are my best thoughts and ideas and seeds to plant that I hope sprout or at least give

give people other ideas based on them and things, but I don't have all the answers to what we need to do right now to get where we want to go. But yeah, it gave me a couple of things. It gave me like the skeptic, I knew that this could be a good introductory book for people to like kind of start this journey. I actually saw a friend, this past confluence, shout out to Lauren Rode, if you're listening.

And she and her husband, Ryan, she read it. Then she made him read it. And she was like, this started his journey. This started his awakening. He recently like left his job and they're going into business together and like all this stuff, you know? And I have another friend, I'll give him a shout out to, it's a Bentley, good friend of mine. And it was kind of the same thing. It's like, this was, this like started a path for me. And a lot of it was because they were similar minded skepticism that the character that Garrett had and they saw themselves in it and it slowly peeled back to

layers as the story went on. It wasn't too much at once. It wasn't too overloaded. And also though, kind of like on the other side of it, it allowed me to get almost more like extreme. Cause some of my thoughts, if I just sat here and told you what I think this new earth could and should look, could and will look like. And also just how I believe certain things about the body and the mind and the heart and how we operate and all these things.

It would sound really extreme to a lot of people, but two things could happen. One, I could have the skeptical character kind of asking, wait, what? I don't know about this and allow for the conversation. And two, those things came out like as the book went on, they came out like more and more and more towards the end. Cause I was like, not only have I waited into this gradually over hundreds of pages, but also towards the end, I'm like, if they're still reading at this point,

speaker-1 (45:14.954)

they're in, you know, they're here. Like I have nothing to hold back. And if they haven't, if they're not here, they didn't make it, that's fine. Not everyone will. But if anyone's still reading by chapter 10, 11, 12, 13, I don't have to be concerned anymore whether or not they're going to just roll their eyes and close the book and put it, you know, put it on the shelf forever. So yeah.

speaker-0 (45:37.378)

people listening, can you just give like a overview arc of what the story is and what unfolds?

speaker-1 (45:44.962)

Yeah. So the story takes place in a land called Okoblaya. That's the main setting of the story. And the word Okoblaya is actually the Lakota word for freedom. It means unrestricted, unobstructed or freedom. So they live in peace and prosperity and harmony. They do have modern technology like we do, but they operate on more indigenous principles in alignment with the universal laws of nature. And they govern themselves.

and really operate all operations are guided by the universal, all-knowing, infinite intelligence that lives within every single being on earth, animal, plant, human, that they call the Primordial Code. They refer to that as the Primordial Code.

It's not a written down code. It's the code that we all have that we can access. And they kind of explain it like no matter where you are in the world, no matter what sort of upbringing, no matter what kind of situation you're in or whatever, if we all get in touch with this code, leads us to the same places and to the same answers. Love, forgiveness, compassion, these types of things. Collaboration, harmony. That's where harmony is formed. So that's their like beliefs.

And I just want to quickly mention, so they have like lot of indigenous principles. did mention the Lakota, but other than that word, I don't really use any specific tribes. You know, it's more generalized and there's the backstory of how they were formed in the story, but they kind of like were like a sort of a combination of different tribes that broke away during the colonization era, including some Europeans who were there, but not into what was going on. so they have this combination society of indigenous and European.

that has been now a few hundred years of living together. And I wanted to include that because A, I actually did read about how a lot of Europeans, that was true, they got here and they were like, you know, we're not down with this, right? These are not savages, these are people, and et cetera. And also to show that like, we're not necessarily trying to go back and be them specifically, but like, it's almost to show what we could have had.

speaker-1 (48:02.392)

with a combination of these two things. If the best of both worlds were combined as opposed to the opposite of that, which is like a genocide essentially. So it's more theoretical and I really want to pay homage to these original peoples that came before us, but not try to pretend like I'm one of them or really understand them in that kind of way. So just want to quickly say that. But anyway, so it takes place in this setting. They've been helped, they've been,

prospering in secret. It's an island off in the Pacific Ocean. They've been in this existence for a few hundred years, but they see what's going on in our world. They're have to do something. And this is a little bit of a conflict in there. They're not conflict free. They just handle everything very differently. And it's just like, how should they help? To what degree should they help? They don't want to risk their own secrecy and all these things. So they start this underground program.

and they bring just like everyday Americans over to the land and they show them, teach them. So they have like a mentor, each character, main two main characters have a main mentor. So that's where most of their learning's coming from. But they're just like following them around for the first few days and they're seeing all the things they do, the way they do school, the way they do markets, the way they do health and medicine, what their capital city quote unquote looks like, how they do politics.

They're just like floating around and their minds are being blown and they're having conversations about all of these things along the way. And they're just like, wow, like how is this even possible? Like we can, could this ever work at home? And they're learning and they're being, they're being challenged a lot on their own beliefs. It's very honest conversations, very straightforward about what they believe coming from the United States and how

You know, they're asking them constantly, well, how do you, know, where'd that come from? Why do you think that? Where do you believe that? And they're like, I know. I never really thought, you know, like they're kind of realizing that most of their longest held beliefs have just kind of been there and never really been put up for question before. They're just kind of what everyone knows and what everyone thinks. And they refer to that, the Okablo people refer to that as empirical code. So it's like the condition to programming and brainwashing that we've all gone through that serves empire.

speaker-1 (50:27.094)

and primordial code and empirical code, empirical code typically overrides primordial code if we're not conscious of it and aware of it. We just will fall into that path and that lane and just go that way like these grown adults are saying, I don't know, you I never actually thought about that before. And it prevents us from getting in touch with what's really going on. So there's a ton of discussion about that. So they're trying to basically.

unravel and untangle and decode the empirical code and learn how to get back and touch and unlock the primordial code. So that's what they're going through in their process there. But they're only actually there for a week in this first book. But a lot happens in the week and they end up going through a really radical transformation. They basically have to decide if they want to come back for a more intensive training program. This is more of like an orientation and like, are you in kind of thing.

and they have to decide if they're ready to commit themselves fully to a more intensive program and basically commit their lives essentially to being somewhat of a spiritual warrior who's going to bring the code back and help this world change. And that's book two.

speaker-0 (51:33.922)

You've spent a lot of time in Costa Rica. Yes. How is being in that environment played an integral role in taking this very elaborate idea out of your head and bringing it into.

speaker-1 (51:47.712)

It was a very key piece because we were feeling super trapped and stuck on Long Island through COVID and things and just like things just felt like we were kind of hitting a lot of dead ends. like, you know, I was doing things that were, we're going, okay, but like, we couldn't quite turn the corner on what we want, how we want to create our life. And we decided to go down to Costa Rica and to an eco village and explore. And it was a big decision that we thought about for a long time and finally we just, we just got to do this. You know, we just got to go.

We basically were leaving everything behind. And this was a while I was kind of having this idea on this book of like whether I want to write it. It goes in my mind. I'll write, I want to write someday sort of thing, but it was starting to really get in my ear. was talking to me.

speaker-0 (52:34.358)

just quick side note, how long do you think you, the first spark of the idea to, okay, writing down, writing those first words.

speaker-1 (52:47.982)

I would say the first, like it's hard to say because it was like the slow trickle of thought. from, guess from me being like, no, you know what? I'm going to write this book in my lifetime to actually opening up the laptop around his first words. probably like a year and a half. I love that. Yeah. And, um, but like, I guess when we started talking about Costa Rica and things, it was like, when we get there, I'm going to write this book.

And I, I still had my coaching business at the time. was, I was incorporating all this holistic lifestyle stuff into like a coaching business that was doing pretty well. like, again, still couldn't quite like turn the corner fully. was trying to fit all this into the fitness space still. And that was just starting to feel like I was like Trojan horsing spiritual development into the fitness space and gyms, which is, it was cool. The results that we were getting, but it's just like, it was a lot of effort to try to change that world. And I started realizing I don't really fit in this world anymore.

So we were letting go of everything. We were moving down there, we starting a new life. I was going to be writing this book on the side and I decided to let the business go to my partner as well and just be like, we're going there and I'm writing this book. I still did have to, like we had a few months of runway, but I had to figure out how to like support myself. So it took me about two years, but I was still kind of doing it on the side. But to answer your question, being in that environment was...

extremely helpful. First of all, I'm living in like the jungle essentially. So I'm like super connected to nature. I'm waking up every morning to these exotic birds and sunrise. And I mean, I'm in my practices pretty deeply and I have just enough of an outline of a story to like get me started. I, which wasn't a lot. Sometimes people are surprised. Like I just, I had like this idea for Okoblaya. I had the two characters, I had their general journey in my mind. And it was just like open up the laptop and start.

Um, and, it really helped being down there because not only from the nature standpoint and just kind of allowing me to be in my space and be in my intuition. were living in like an eco village essentially, and it was really good. it gave us, it's a lot of people are like, Oh, is this like basically what you were experiencing down there? Like when they read about Okla Bly and I'm like, honestly, no, not really. And not that I would have expected that what Okla Bly is, what is what I think the future.

speaker-1 (55:08.19)

become. It doesn't really exist yet. What we were there, what I was experiencing then, there was a really nice stepping stone from typical modern lifestyle in America to between that and Okoblaya. So it was really helpful. But it also, so it was helping me see what was so great that we were experiencing there with community and village and coming together for shared meals and having all these offerings and just like.

walking through the village and just going up to our, know, see, so and so I see them on their porch, just go sitting in on the porch for an hour and talking or just knocking on the door. Like the kids could roam free. Like all this stuff was great. And it also showed me a lot of things that weren't there. Again, not really like their fault, but just like when I'm writing a story, I was kind of getting in tune with like what I felt like was maybe missing from an ideal scenario that I was able to build into the Okabaya world.

And yeah, I was also just like loose and having fun, you know, and that was like showing up, think in my writing and, but it was a journey. The writing was a journey because, you know, I'm sharing a lot of what I believe in my heart is deep truth that are not at all, um, popular opinions. A lot of, a lot, a lot of unique perspectives in there that I believe purely mine that I've, you everything is drawn from places, but like my combination of things that I, I'm not just kind of like regurgitating other people's stuff, but.

But it's scary, know, it's vulnerable. I had to work through a lot to get out on the paper what I really wanted to get out.

speaker-0 (56:39.816)

What's the top idea that you were scared to share?

speaker-1 (56:47.97)

don't know if it's like one idea, but there's just a lot of discussion on, well, there's a lot of discussion on what ultimately leads towards, you know, God essentially, and a lot on love, right? And the, and it's just like the emotional realms and spiritual and emotional realms in general, let's just say, which is tricky for, you know,

flashing back to where I come from, hard charging, all out, slamming barbells, screaming, sniffing salts before I take squat, just a few years earlier. Now swinging back in this other direction and trying to talk about how to come into alignment with our heart and our balance and make it so it's a way where it's my truth and what I really feel.

which most, a lot of people might consider extreme, also in a way that's like digestible and not like this guy's just a woo woo woo fairy, right? So I held back in certain spots. The only places I really went back and rewrote things, because it flowed pretty well, were parts where I'm like, this is not my, I'm not, I'm holding back here. This is not my truth. This is not what's really wants to come out in these situations.

speaker-0 (58:07.894)

So with Okublai, talk to me more about your ideas and mission of, know, it feels like for you, if you just let that live within the page, that's just part one of your journey, but really bringing it into the real world.

speaker-1 (58:22.806)

Yeah, the intention to me was never like, I want to just make a book that keeps people entertained for a few weeks before, you know, they read it a little bit each night before bed and then they're just like enjoying the book.

speaker-0 (58:36.29)

Yeah, it's the blueprint for something big.

speaker-1 (58:38.454)

Exactly. And I wanted to, I wanted for them, each individual reader to finish and say, I want to like live like this in my personal life. And I want to like help create, find the other people that are living like this and want to create this as well. Like how I want, I imagine people closing the book and saying, how do we do this? And I've actually added a QR code on the last page now in the new, in the new version where people can scan in, know, scan it and join our group chat. And we have.

roughly monthly or so calls where we talk about just that. And on the most recent call, last month's call, I know I guess it was two calls ago, I announced that I am starting the early stages of a project where I'm doing my best to develop a concept model for a new version of village, a new type of village, something I'm calling modern tribal. And it's based on the principles and the story.

And it's a couple of quick things about it is that one, it's not just a group trying to get a group of people to go start a village. It's the idea is it's a concept model that can be replicated and scaled and adopted by others. And that modern tribal is like, you know, we're not going back to huts and things, unlikely, unless we like we we have to, which I don't think anybody really wants that. Right. We're, we're, there's certain things in, in this modern world that we're.

are here, right? But going back to the principles of tribe and what that really means is where I'm actually spending most of my time right now developing and like putting that into words and putting that into painting that picture and that vision for people so they can see it and decide pretty easily and clearly like, yes, I'm aligned with this or I'm not.

And I do that after being in an eco-village for a few years, I actually worked on the village we were living in was undergoing a massive expansion is from what I know, the biggest eco-village project in the world. And if it's not, if I'm wrong on that, it's like one of the one, know, it's huge. So I talked to a lot of people over this couple of, while we were there, I was fielding calls from people all over the world and what they were looking for and what they wanted and what they were hoping to find down there and whether or not what this village was offering.

speaker-1 (01:01:06.658)

was going to meet that need. So I was just like immersed in that conversation of what the world wants and what it needs. And I learned a lot and I saw a lot of things that I think were maybe mistakes will say, you know, like, and I'm trying to really design something, like I said, model that people can see really clearly and kind of opt in or out. it's, it's.

it revolves around the people and the principles. Who do we want to be as a tribe? And more than just like, these are the building materials we're going to use. And this is like, you know, the business model that we're going to, all that stuff is important, very important. It will be part of it, but at the root of it. In fact, so I break it down to root, heart and crown. It's kind of these three areas. And the same thing with my movement practice.

the secure root, expanded heart and elevated crown open. And the root are like the root truths of the principles of who we are as a people that come together here. Then the heart is like how we manage our relationships, how conflict resolutions and things like that. And the crown is like systems, logistics, how we're gonna operate on a day-to-day basis. But the root is first because if you're not aligned with this,

It's the other stuff doesn't really matter. These are the principles that we live by. Cause if you really look at ancient tribes or ancient civilizations, let's sure, you can learn about how they did think, how they built stuff, what tools they use, but tribes really define themselves by their beliefs, who we are as people, the human character traits that we hold. And those are the things that not only will we be

all kind of clear on, it's what we'll be working on, developing together, what we'll be holding ourselves accountable for, the children will be learning in school, what it means to be a part of this and what we stand for. And that's something I haven't seen really in the eco-village movement out in the world. It's usually based on land and ecology and sustainability. Again, all very important things, I'm not dissing on anybody.

speaker-1 (01:03:30.082)

But what I'm looking at is more of on the tribal side.

speaker-0 (01:03:33.016)

Hmm. That's really, really interesting. Do you have a full team behind you working with this or how much of this is

speaker-1 (01:03:39.96)

Just you. No, right now it's like, so actually it's a good question because I would say it's just me quote, but I've opened this up early to my community. And I told them on the very first call, actually it's funny. I mentioned to Cal on his show because if you remember, I think it was on your show. I listened to Cal and he talked about the, do you remember when we talked about this all-star hockey game? Yeah. How we just did like everything different than he normally would have done. Yeah, right.

speaker-0 (01:04:06.798)

you practiced at all.

speaker-1 (01:04:08.76)

So this isn't related to like that specific thing, but like the idea of just doing everything the opposite of what we normally do. What I would normally do, cause what I told myself, like, I want to start developing this just kind of in the background, really working out the kinks. Cause the idea is like to get all the kinks worked out and have this workable model, adoptable model, and then shift into the landed funding portions of the process. And in my mind, it's always just like, yeah, I'm just going to, I'm not going to tell anybody about it. I'm just going to do my thing. Like I did with the book, which.

kind of made it really tricky when I was like, all right, I wrote a book. People were like, what about what? didn't know, you But I was like, and I heard that and I was like, huh, like this was right at the time when I was deciding that this was gonna be like my next project of mine.

speaker-0 (01:04:52.406)

Yeah, dude, this isn't something that you can just end of day be like, Hey guys, I got this.

speaker-1 (01:04:56.75)

Exactly. So I went, I flipped the script and I decided that I'm going to open this up to the people who are reading the book, who are in this community. call it Club Okablo. Okablo, know, Okablo is the land, the Okablo people are the ones who live there. And the name of this is Okablo Modern Tribal Village. That's the project. And I'm like, no, this is a co-creation.

We're going to create this together. We need the energy behind it. I need to help people connect. this guy knows this about these kinds of things and this about this kind of things and there's whatever like that has to start now. So when I did this call, I presented these general frameworks and perhaps, you know, an outline that I'm seeing. But the very first thing I said on the call was I don't have any land. don't have any funding. I don't have any idea of exactly how this is going to happen. Right.

I want to be open and honest. This is again, this is new for me to say this is kind of vulnerable in a lot of ways. But everybody was all in, they're like, let's do it. know, like we don't have, don't even. Exactly. Exactly. This is what they said. Like we want, we want this. We want to create this. We know you don't have, we know you don't know how to do it exactly yet. It's okay to say that we're here, you know, and we're going to work together. And so that's, that's where we're at. It's, it's a long-term vision, but even just being at confluence this past week and I met a few.

speaker-0 (01:05:59.874)

power of the book.

speaker-1 (01:06:19.342)

people who I think could play some key roles in just helping me understand some aspects that aren't my forte. And just, yeah, keep the thing, just, it's gonna be a slow, slow moving thing. Maybe not slow, but like just steady, steady moving thing that I'm working on over this, I mean, putting my attention towards now more thoroughly and we'll continue to moving forward.

speaker-0 (01:06:44.526)

I it's incredible the identity transformation, especially how you were talking about how, you know, needing to confront that fitness mechanistic sort of reductionistic lifestyle and to see how that's unfolded now into all the work that you're doing. Your brother, Danny, how has

He's shown you an appreciation for, you know, what just lives on the surface is far different than what lives within.

speaker-1 (01:07:20.494)

Thank you for asking that. So my brother Danny's listeners understand is my younger brother is about 10 years younger than me. He's nonverbal autistic and for the first 20 years, well, he was developmentally normal for the first about 18 months of his life and through his

He was vaccine injured, essentially. You know, I know that's a controversial thing, but that is the truth. And that all stopped. His ability to speak, his ability to respond to his name, to do a lot of basic functions, it all just like, like relatively overnight just disappeared. And for the next 20 years, he had no effective way of communicating anything whatsoever. And it was...

It was and still is very challenging, very, very challenging for him, for the family, for everybody involved. But about 10 years ago, discovered, we, we as a family discovered this program, this type of therapy called RPM, Rapid Prompting Method right here in Austin, actually, believe it or not, it's where it was. Soma, her name is, is the woman who, the genius, she's like a

a savant in her own way, kind of, who found a way for her son to unlock her own son's voice through this prompting method in letterboard. And they point and touch the letters. It's not electronic or anything. Are you familiar with telepathy tapes? Have you heard about it? Yeah, so anyone that has listened to telepathy tapes is probably nodding their head like, yeah, I've heard about this. so,

We were hoping to get like, you know, basic like, you know, on like, what do you want to eat for dinner and stuff like that. What we got instead, so, you know, I'm shortening the story a little bit, but like we were super hopeful, but also like, you know, we tried a million things that had failed and like, like, if this is, you know, it would be too, if this doesn't work, it's going to crush us, you know, cause we.

speaker-1 (01:09:39.922)

And within just a few days of being here, he was able to start typing his first letters and words. And it was just like unbelievable, you know? And then when he started typing was much different than what we expected. And it was just typical with a lot of people who use this letter board, you know, like him, they are tapped in, tapped in, and they, they aren't here to chit chat and have basic conversation. When you spend 20 years not being able to talk, you, you want to say, you have some things on your mind you want to, you want to say.

And so not only did it feel like just like a miracle in general to have to see this transpire, the things that he started talking about really shifted for my whole family. I guess our perception, our perception really of the world. And I come from a very devout Catholic family. grew up with a lot of faith, but it didn't really veer out into anything more than sort of like the textbook version of that.

And what he is showing us is that there's just more to this, to this physical realm and the spiritual realm, I believe overlap essentially two planes of existence. And what he's writing is essentially feels like it's like channeled in from this higher plane. it's just been like this.

what he writes and you would think after all these years, you know, he'd be pretty frustrated and disgruntled and like kind of mad at the world about this life that he's that he's taken up that he's had and it's the opposite. It's, it's, he talks about his frustrations. Yes. He talks about how hard it is to live with these conditions, but he has this immense gratitude and appreciation and you know,

There's just one line that's coming to me from one of his poems. like, we all have challenges and these are mine, you know, but I remain grateful throughout. So I might be mixing up that last line, but there's, know, we all have challenges and these are mine. It's plain and simple and remains grateful through it all. And he talks in this book. I just published, I'll quickly jump to that. So for about 10 years, he's been going to these sessions, my dad or mom, but usually my dad will there and just kind of write what he's saying.

speaker-1 (01:12:06.744)

come home, he'll type it out, usually print out a few copies to give us. And we're all like, my God, you know, it's crazy. Like it's mind blowing stuff. It's what he's saying. It's oftentimes so, it just like resonates for me and my personal life so much. Little poems, little passages, little like almost like journal entry kind of things. And we've been saying for years, like we gotta share these with more people. We gotta get this in a book or whatever, but that's a big project, you know? And they're kind of like,

spread out on the computer or the hard drive or some of them are notebooks. And I spent the winter, I was like, no, we're getting this book out. And I spent a lot of this winter compiling it all and typing it all. And it's all right here. This is actually for you. I'm going to give you afterwards. Thank Yeah. It's called All We Know Is In The Air, Poems and Passages by non-speaking autistic writer, Danny Costello. And, but what I was saying is like reading these, especially when I...

I was doing this, got to re-read a of them that I hadn't seen in a while because like I said, we would read them once and they were just kind of going to draw or something. And I'm like, this is not fair to him. It's not fair to the world. This is important stuff to be shared. he's just, he's led me, he's shown me what it means to just have faith and believe and what gratitude really means.

and had to be patient and listen, he struggled. He's had struggle, aggression, rage, know, that stuff didn't stop just because he could now communicate a little bit. he showed, you know, as you could imagine, like imagine if you couldn't speak and get your mind out and get your opinions out and get your thoughts and going through school and being herded like cattle essentially because people think there's nobody in there. That's really hard. And

to know that he's went through that and what he's been through and how he is able to be. He's my hero. I look up to him. He's a leader for me and for our whole family. I think helped us just open our minds, expand our belief system, our beliefs even further and see that this is, just from the spiritual standpoint, just like really opened us all up.

speaker-0 (01:14:24.994)

Brian, it's been great talking with you. This entire conversation has been so awesome. Where can people go to learn more about you, all the work that you do, anything else you'd like to share?

speaker-1 (01:14:35.726)

Yeah, so my only social media platform is Instagram, brian.castello with a little underscore at the end. I have this on and off thing with social media, know, but I'm putting more into it now with the book and everything. And the primordialcode.com is where the book is. I'd prefer if people went there to order the book. It is available on Amazon as well if you're outside the United States.

But if you're in the U S and you order through the website, it's, it's, it's appreciated. And, um, there's also, you can read all the reviews. There's a bunch of reviews on there. There's a couple of preview previews. You can actually listen to the first two chapters for free on either Spotify or Apple. They're just up there as a podcast. And I usually encourage people to do that. I mean, if you, if you're hearing this and you're like, this sounds awesome and you want to jump in, yeah, please do go jump in. If you're like, huh, maybe I'll just like kind of check it out first.

pop on the preview chapters and see if it pulls you. And if it does, then you buy the book and pick up a chapter three. So the primordialcode.com and then the book, like I said, Danny's book is called All We Know Is In The Air. You can go to the primordialcode.com slash Danny with a capital D. We'll give you this page. He doesn't have his own website yet. Just came out this past week. I did share a few readings on

Instagram as well. shared a couple are like going viral, which is cool. So we're getting a lot of orders, which is just as amazing to see. so you could find it there, you know, that website or just it's also on Amazon if you're outside of the United States as well, but it's best if you, know, we prefer if you order from us. And yeah, I mean, as far as.

speaker-0 (01:16:04.078)

Those were awesome.

speaker-1 (01:16:27.438)

the primordial code, I really, like I said, I encourage people, if you're even feeling at all like this resonates with you, just take a chance on it go for it and see if it pulls you in. And if it does, at the end, there's that QR code to join Club O'Cablo. It's starting to grow, I'm starting to offer more, we're having calls, we're having, we have a group chat, we're starting to put our heads together and bring this thing into reality. Thanks so much, Tim.

speaker-0 (01:16:48.96)

Awesome.